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Let me show you how I cake up a hank of yarn using an umbrella swift and yarn winder. That hank, a good shake up and then I over my umbrella swift around and I pieces of yarn that were holding that hank together. Gonna release the two ends of that hank. Then I take, I feed it piece of my yarn winder and up and I always start off slow. Pull a little from the umbrella swift as it's getting started. As it tightens, when it's starting directly from the umbrella swift and I can and just let thing because it's electric. Usually takes 5-ish minutes to wind up. As that finishes, my swift will stop spinning. I can pop this cake of yarn right off of my winder. I can do or an outside pull without any tangles or mess.